Expanding on Options:

[BenevolentDevil]

Hrmm, I was sitting here thinking about other places I have played, and what parts of them I liked and did not like, and tried comparing all these to Alangara here as well.

I thought, why not address some of these aspects while I had time to kill?
Well, it's not as if any of these ideas and such need to be implemented into Alangara at all ... most are just enhancements that give a little bit of "wow that's neat" factor into base idea itself.

Keep in mind, I have no idea how to do most of these things myself, as I'm a scripting dummy ... all I have is the player end side of the experience to go on for most of these.

I will not name the severs from which I take examples of, for I do not want those names being tagged by search engines, so the post could be found by the other server admins and possibly start conflicts or disruptions. I am sure, most people have tried one or two , and maybe even had similar experiences.

One sticks out in my mind, mostly because I TRIED my best to enjoy a stint there ... there were issues on this PW I had trouble swallowing though.
Number one being the main DM/Admin/Creator ... while he was amazingly talented at a lot of things, I wish I knew how to do ... , he also had the mind-set of play the way he likes , or you weren't worth his time/effort. His personality was controlling , and often super -paranoid you were going to take his ideas and run off with them I guess.
He also was un-able to try and compromise any detrimental situations that popped up from any aspect, be it social , something in the PW, or dealing with the server itself.
Besides that, I continuously got these weekly emails from his forums, with some sob story of how expensive hosting was, that the money ran out for hosting, and next week/month/day ... the server would be shut down if players didn't donate to keep it going. I think I donated 10 dollars on the first one I got, then I sat back and watched to see if the PW got taken down permanently like the emails suggested.
Well, it never did ... somehow "miraculously" , funds magically got donated to upkeep the high server cost every month. I always felt, ol dude was just scamming money ... in fact he tried to enlist me as a "advertiser" demanding I make post of bioware and other places to attract players that might donate. It felt like it was pay-to-play , or work outside the PW to play , and if you didn't do that ... you got problems and nitpicky issues throwed at you.

Anyways , on the PW side ... it did use some Hard Core Rulesets that were quite advanced from my way of thinking ... , now I never have been a fan of HCR concepts in the first place, because they are static and often annoyances while trying to RP and adventure. Like having to have food to rest, plus a bed roll, or tent, campfire and water. Combine that with timed resting ( you can rest again in X hours ) meant if you screwed up and tried to rest when you couldn't, it screwed up your timing so you had to wait longer, and also used up resources , even though you didn't gain anything from it.
Some of the concepts ,I learned were put in place, so it gave your characters something to do other than grind for XP elsewhere. One way of getting food , was to find and hunt herbivore animals, skin them, get the meat and cook the meat on a campfire. Or you could go to places find or buy the foods. Water needed good water sources to get into your canteens. But, some water sources could be bad ... I discovered a few that were full of pathogens ( gave a disease upon drinking ) , and one well another player actually poisoned some time earlier ... which , while annoying was rather neat in concept at the same time.
Aggravatingly though, you had these hunger/thrist/fatigue bars pop up in your client side chat area, and if you stopped to RP , these bars drained faster than if you were adventuring. You constantly had to spam food, water, and rest when you could, even if you were in mid conversation ...
The realistic weather aspect, also bugged me ... it never seemed the weather was "nice" , it was either super cold ( forcing you to wear cold weather, heavy, and non-AC adding gear ) and damaged you slowly , or it was scorching hot and forced you to remove most items or armors, or your thirst and fatigue level ran out in a minute or two ...
There was also item and gear UPKEEP/Repair too. Everything had those bars , and just wearing/equipping an item started making it wear out. Armors, weapons, and shields especially dropped in wear and tear, in every battle you had, big or small. I lost quite a few good items to this system, before I figured out you could return to town, find a crafting anvil, and make repairs of you had points in craft armor or craft weapon, and some gold.
So, while these were designed to aid RP "systems" , I found them annoying and problematic at best.

BUT the place did have quite a few awesome extras that made me keep going all the same.
The first thing was, the SECRETS ... and I'm not just talking about secret doors and hidden loot here ... I found out, that some doors I found that couldn't be picked or opened , actually needed chat-spoken-passwords to enter. Usually you found clues around these doors to know how they Open. Like the first one I found had a sign beside it. It had said something like, "sOrry, authorized PersonnEl only."
While it read funny, I just thought it was a typo, or maybe the odd capital letters was from a NPC that wasn't too savvy on writing ... but if you stood near the door, and said "Open" in your chat bar, it actually unlocked the door. I looked at the sign again later, and if you took the capital letters, it spelled " OPEN" ... giving a clue as to how to access the area beyond.
There were many such doors, and secret passages that opened by chat like that. One I found in a dungeon, the clue on how to open it was absurdly found in a dungeon completely un-related elsewhere , but I did find it.
Like Alangara here, some areas weren't obvious points on the map ... many were well hidden and crafty placed triggers , you really had to search for them .
Movement - This was probably my second biggest love of the server , not only was walking/running an option ... but you could also jump, climb, and swim ... well, you could fly too if shape shifted into a flying form, or had winged characters to begin with. To me , this opened up a whole slew of new means of exploration. There were areas, you couldn't access unless you climbed to them, or flew up ... and many you had to swim to get to. If you were on a higher elevation ( cliff wall) you could climb down, or jump down to the next level. ( or again fly ). This place was designed for that though, and Alangara uses the elevations to channel specific paths, so I doubt these extra means of movement would be beneficial for it. I loved that aspect of that one PW , but honestly it probably would only work well there.
Like Alangara , spells were changed here and there to reflect the scope of the server itself. In my opinion, most were downgraded , instead of upgraded though. But , as far as casters went , each type ... Druid, Cleric, and Arcane had the potential to learn spells not included in NWN.
Somehow they had this spell book for your type of character , and if you placed the book, with the correct material components in a special research desk ... you could learn and memorize extra spells , a lot of which were from the DnD handbooks ...
If you learned a spell, you could use the book on someone else and teach them a spell, if they were of a level that could cast it.
In order to cast the spell, each spell had it's own unique way of "chanting it" , meaning you had to type in the exact funny looking name for it.
I never found many of these spells, even though my book showed hundreds of open slots for them. A DM did tell me, each slot was for a unique spell for my class ...
The only drawback was , no one knew all the spells , or what to get to gain most of these spells. That was a secret the creator knew , but would not even drop hints on how to achieve those. He told me, I'd just have to be smart enough , to figure them out.
Certain spells were useful there, like "Rope-Trick" , you casted by saying something like -linguasse in the chat box if you had it memorized. It casted like any other spell in NWN, complete with animation. The effect was a magical rope appeared , and allowed you to climb up into a pocket dimension where you could camp/rest/try to wait out the weather/day/night cycle.
I did learn a few of these , just enough to keep my interested in discovering more, and also frustrating as you found items you thought might work, but didn't lol. For playing a caster, it just added a whole new dimension to playing a caster.

The world was huge ... I don't know how many areas, but over a thousand separate areas.
But, it also had big area maps almost every area. Most of them, around the starting city were plain, and held no interest in them at all.
I found some caves , and discovered the caves ran all across the same lands underground, but they did not contain anything of any real interest. A few non-hostile bats, and transitions to caves scattered about the lands.
I played there a month, before I discovered the secret to that , and that was only because a DM dropped a hint on how to find places to adventure in.
Keep in mind, there were no portals I could attain at my low levels ... only high level wizards could teleport around there.
The DM explained to me, that there would be less monsters where civilization was, and far away from patrols. So, one day I headed out due north from the city. 28 huge maps later north, I finally ran into a wandering band of goblins to kill. I got hurt badly, didn't have enough healing so I went all the way back to the city on foot, and picked up some healing pots. I traveled all the way back, to discover the goblins only came out at night time hours, lol.
Trogdolytes came out and close to the city when the moon was "new" ( not shining in the sky at all ) , many animals came out at night , you didn't see in the daytime, and vica versa in the same areas.
Shops in town an off a Business hours, so if it was nighttime in the city, forget about shopping , find an inn, and wait out the slow creeping hours if you needed anything.
I eventually did find other cave systems to explore, and going far and deep in these places, I found entrances to other worlds and lairs ... so that stuff kept me going through the aggravation. But, the PW had almost no players at all. I discovered most got annoyed by not finding any adventure shortly after arriving , plus the HCR stuff, I can't blame them for not coming back.
I explained to the creator , that areas were to big, and adventure was too far away for starting characters. He told me , that players should expect monsters to be very far from civilization , and they needed to tough it out and be smarter about things, instead of trying to make it easy for people to integrate.
That was one thing that was wrong there ...
Eventually you an into the point where you needed other players , and there weren't any because hardly anyone stayed long enough to find the places to go to adventure.
Some aspects that were good though was, Rogues got XP for picking locks and disarming or flagging traps. There were even some places, you could "rob" , like my rogue/assassin lifted a set of plates off a wall of a house in town. A few paintings ... I eventually found a "fence" to buy them, I got gold ( not much but some ) and a bit of XP per item sold for it too.
Most windows , you could listen at, peek through ( set a cutscene of what was on the other side in limited view ) , open, lock, unlock or break, and climb through. These were more areas I missed while playing the caster. If you did it right, you could sneak into a place, rob it blind , avoid the staff/guards/NPCs ( whom could catch you in the act ) ... and sneak out again. Some areas were only accessible by climbing through one set of windows, traveling around the inside of a building, find the right window that took you outside so you could find more windows to get into areas you normally couldn't get to.
Every time you entered an area for the first time, you gained like 20xp for exploration. The DM told me, even if someone played a pacifist character, and never got into combat, they had enough areas someone could gain 7 levels from exploration XP alone. I raised one level by exploring early on, so yeah it was probable.
I thought that a nice touch too.
Traps though were stupid ... I've never liked traps in NWN , because they normally are easy to spot, or are set too high and you run over them for instant epic death. These ones were even dumber than that, save one type. Every trap there had a triggering mechanism located else where. In order to disarm, you had to find the mechanism , but the trap never actually went away even If you disarmed it and got the xp, so you wound up getting blasted regardless of the effort.
The one trap I did however find amusing was the "paint traps" ... occasionally, you'd be sneaking around a dungeon or cave, trying to remain undetected or invisible by the wandering monsters that came in hordes at you if one spotted you. If you hit the paint trap, and failed your reflex save, you got coated in paint ... rendering you visible to the bad guys If you came across them. Finding enough deep water to stand in, and waiting washed it off ... but it not only spazzed out your invisibility spell , or made you where you couldn't sneak or HIPs , ghostly visage, and displacement also got fizzed out as long as you wore the paint ... , it turned you and you gear, a bright color , usually green but I also got painted aqua, and light pink too a few times.
I thought it was cool, because it wasn't a lethal trap in itself, was a reason to have a good rogue along with you for sure , and it's effect was basically one that could land you into trouble, if you didn't take caution and get the stuff washed off as soon as you could.
Like the time I got painted Pink , I was trying to rob a merchant's back room. One of the chest had the paint trap in it. Normally I liked trying to rob a merchant, and then go into the store late rand resell his items back to him/her, lol. One time I did it, forgot to get rid of the pink paint , and the NPC refused to deal with me, because the paint told him I was caught robbing his wares. He called the guards , and I slipped out a window. From there on out, my character could not "shop" at the place, even after a reset.
Shops were a different experience too ... items were placed in containers, and you picked what you wanted and went to the NPC to barter a deal or pay for the items. Some would haggle. Appraise skill helped. Others not so much ... but you could do a few things because of that system. First off, you could try to shop lift items if you wanted to. I never did it in front of the NPCs , they would give a warning if you got to close to a door , and after knowing some won't deal with you If caught stealing ever again ... I decided not to push my luck. But you could do something else just as effective ... rogues got a "hide ability" , like they could literally hide in the bushes, trees, crates, boxes, coffins, ect ... , so remember how I said most shops closed at dark and didn't open until morning? Well, you go in late, hide in a crate or other thing, wait until the shop closed. Then you were locked in. But you could load up on items , either break a window and climb out ( hoping no guard was below to spot you ) , or try and pick the lock or discover another way out.
Occasionally, the shop owner would "hear something" and come investigate his shop floor when it was closed, and it was random so you never knew when or if you'd get caught or be able to hide fast enough, lol.
I thought those aspects great additions, and really made playing a rogue( mine was evil there ) quite entertaining. Some places had golems and magical means of disrupting thieves, lol I found some of those too ...
The areas though, bleh ... most were not detailed. Just big and open , or paths through normal tree lines, and such. There was no in game lore to be found , there wasn't even any direction to take there. You just explored and discovered, or you missed out. In many instances, the "clues" that something was there, was so obnoxiously un-impressive it was easy to over-look. There were secrets hidden inside secrets , that was the creator's handiwork. He never liked anything to be obvious.
I always thought, If one could take all those extra cool features, and roll them into a PW like Alangara , it would truly be a fantastical place to explore and play in, beyond the scope of what it already is. One just would have to remove the annoying stuff, and the crap the other PW owner wanted to force onto players. That was his thing, he wanted to challenge the player, and not the characters they played ... but then gripe at them, because they aren't role-playing to his standards.

I am certain I am forgetting a ton of things, like encumbrance there was annoying. Your gold weighted you down too even. Between that, the food and water , and camping gear ... you suffered in weight and always limited in how much loot you could carry. There were no magic bag sin the PW, so yeah ... another frustration. Changing armor, took many rounds where your character was paralyzed basically until the time was up.
That sucked too I thought. Heavy armors gave good AC, but slowed your character down.

Like I said though, some of those extra features were pretty cool. Just about every class has some extra abilities granted to them, that fit the classes. Like Rangers and Barbarians could track almost anything given the dc of the tracks left behind. Examining a campfire burned gave the approximate hours since it was burned out, what sort of tracks were around it , if any food was cooked, spices used, potions brewed there maybe, and if tents or bed rolls were used. My Barbarian also could sense pathways and strange places in natural areas by wilderness sense.
Rogues , and rogue based classes , I covered a lot of that up above.
Casters got extra spells ( if you could figure out how to gain them ) , some of the most valuable items not even UMD users could use , and enchant/repair enchanted items if they were high enough level for the items. They could scry for other players, NPCs, ect as long as they knew them, and used the clairvoyant/clairaudience spell while using their crystal ball.( A limted time cutscene , that actually showed the player or NPC and what was going on around them. ) The could passively detect magic, that also told them if they were in wild magic zones, or dead magic zones. SpellCraft would tell any caster type, if high enough they got spied on by Scry too.
Even clerics got special holy spells , NWN did not ever cover.
Bards just didn't sing for bonuses or curses in combat too ... you could gain XP for telling a tale ( non DM, dunno how that was done, but the server knew when you told a long tale ) , you could cast minor illusions to enhance performances ( leaned similar to the wizard/sorc spells ) , like dancing lights , and other minor illusions. One I seen had a Mirror Image spell, that in combat gave the monsters fake targets to go after , until they hit them and dispelled each one ... handy wouldn't that be? Bards got xp for writing in game books/stories, and poetry that got added to the library by scripting in real time.
Fighters got extra bonuses to stats here and there, and depending on their armor/weapon configurations, often got boons to ac , or attacks based of their normal training methods.
Paladins could detect evil in 60' radius. They could also Inspire others, ... I seen one rally a group of regular farmers ( NPCS) , to go fight a minor battle against some goblin raiders found on the road.
Druids could do all sorts of nature things, like pass with-out trace ( no tracking them ) , use special paths no one else but a druid or ranger could follow. Shape changed, their animals forms allowed other senses to kick in, like smelling bad water, hearing things others couldn't hear , tracking was easier by smell. Some polymorph and small animal forms, allowed to by pass things like bars on doors, crawling into cracks too small for even a Halfling to enter ( accessing new areas , or other ways into places. )

There was crafting there too , but honestly I never figured any of it out myself. It wasn't CNR crafting , it was some odd custom made craft system, there were no recipes, and you didn't know what objects to find to craft , or how to put them together to make anything. It was another one of the creator's " figure it out" things, and didn't interest me enough to try. It was hard enough, trying to figure out spells and finding adventure there.

Lol, like I said some of it was down right cool, and awesome ... but put in the most annoying set up/PW , and with the owner the way he was , I just had to find something else entirely. It was a big huge world, and there were like 3 players there , and we were only on the same times a few precious days out of a month. That didn't make things any easier to swallow there. And we were all varying level ranges anyways. My Barbarian/rogue/assassin got to level 14 before I decided to give up there, and shortly after I discovered Alangara here.

, but like I said, I doubt much of these aspects could be implemented or repeated here , but I do like throwing ideas out on the tale for inspiration.
So if none ever make it into this server, no worries at all.
I was am simply sharing an experience, and hopefully other swil chime in on aspects they found in other places they liked as well.
Out of these pockets of information, Alangara might get a few additions here and there , that would only farther enhance it's already awesome content.
If not, ... we aren't loosing anything , so it's all good to me!

[tarashon]

Well....

As for the HCR Seeker and I debated it a long time ago, aswell as similar systems/concepts and basically decided not to go for it. We deemed it "more hindrance than coolness factor".

The flight, jump, climb and swim concept once again is a really really cool thing but, like you wrote yourself, you simply NEED to design your areas for it, and as you also pointed out Alangara is decided allmost diametrically opposite in terms of these skills...

Crafting is also a nice option being it the standard ingame version or special scripted one, but then again you face the problem of class ballance, unless you would simply "roll back" Alangara and remove existing items in the shops and make them now craftable. We have also removed the crafting systems in Alangara since especially melee characters can turn too powerfull with the right aid of potions, spells, etc...

So where does this leave us then ????

One thing is obviously to give characters AND their human player reasons and options to entertain themselves while alone, with other stuff than killing gobby2000 for the 128th time. We have tried to some extend to make certain things, such as moorberries and ibis ithula, special ingredients you need to look for. However if one could come up with other concepts to implement we are most certainly open to suggestions...

Secrets can be used in many forms but in the form you described it is really tied together with the overall world design. Some prefere huge worlds boasting of their 1k + areas, while others take it in the absolute different directions, such as Alangara, basically not creating one single area without giving it a very specific purpose, 80+ % of the time making it a direct combat zone at the minimum. So what I would like for us to do, and what I am working on, is making more quests that strecthes across severel areas and continents, more storylines type quests giving indept information of certain events or history of the Inner Realms. We also have atleast one specific "specialty plane" being the "Isle of Anoy" , a quasiplane combining the Inner Realms with Asgard, and with its own questline. However this area is truly Epic as in one level 40 Reborn with 1500+ hp going there alone will be dead before even remotely managing the very first encounter...

So more quasi planes etc will be cool, and can make for truly unique storylines and plots/quests.

The farm is one way of trying to entertain players while alone allthough I realise it has its limits especially when you have gotten to do all the quests for special crops. After that its really just a gatherpoint for gear, gold and XP without having to hackNslash but at the same time not really offering anything new.

Creating ones own land and house etc is also a way to keep players occupoed but offcourse not all finds this interesting.... The same goes for designing books for the library which is also greatly apreciated.

So here is the thing..... If one could come up with something, to give players enough of an edge to be worth spending time on, while at the same time not terrible disturbing class ballance, and while adhering to these also being something we can implement now... then it would be awesome. All in all though the greatest problem here, and in that old server of yours , is the ever-disturbing lack of players.

On a sidenote to your mentioning of funding the server on your old one, "back in the days" severel players suggested I implemented some sort of donating system like via paypal, so that I should not have the burden of paying for everything. Back then, as now, i objected to the idea plain and simple. The reason is that it is so easy to get a "them and us" mentality, even if not coming from the staff but merely amongst players themselves. Us being the donators and them being those who do not. I personally LOOOOOOOVE the fact that nwn1 is truly and utterly free to play and this is thus my personal little contribution to that, and thats how its going to stay....period !

Well, ill continue when I get more inspiration or the like. Just the same though I can only agree to this post in terms of the advantage of new pojects for players , especially when alone...

/tara

[tarashon]

Actually came to think of something....Player housing.

I recall back when the server was called Xymoria we actually for a brief period had integrated a housing system where you basically just bought a key and vupti you had a house - just solpe ugly huts ona row back then. What was interesting what that furniture was placeables you could manipulate ingame and also you bought them in a shop, like certain Mmorgs out there. this ofc ment players could use ton of time ( i did myself ) designing their house and lots of time gettign cash to buy various furniture, the fancier the more expensive. this could with some custom scripting perhaps even include some specialty furniture allowing special statboosts, powers, exp or the like...

It would require some scripting though but not sure of such systems are actually out there for download anymore...

/tara

[Somnium]

Very nice write-up! A lot of interesting ideas here!

I agree that HCR-rules (as well as similar "realism-enchancing" scripts) are often not really adding to the enjoyment of a server. "Do activity X every Y or be penalized" is not my idea of a fun game mechanic, as it involves no real choice, just increased tedium.

When it comes to "areas to explore", I think our philosophy on Alangara has served us well: All areas need to be there for a specific purpose (even if that purpose is "showcasing Tara's fantastic building skills")

I have brainstormed several ideas about how to add more "flavor" by for instance having special class/race powers giving alternative capabilities/flavor (in addition to their difference in "game mechanics"). However, as I see it, the two major obstacles to this are:
1) It can take up a lot of work, which will ultimately only benefit a subset of players.
2) "unique" class capabilities does not (in my opinion) mesh very well with "classes are tools" mentality of D&D, where multiclassing is a method of gaining extra "game mechanics" capabilities. It's hard to give e.g. fighters an unique flavor, if fighter levels are just components of a character build.

I would love to script more "lore/world-based" skills/systems and more "secrets" for the players to explore and discover. For me, the exploration element is actually much more fun than the "game mechanics" element of a persistent world (even in a game based on D&D). So it is nice to hear, that there is a demand for this kind of content as well.

An important aspect of world building, as well as attracting (and retaining!) players, is for the players to "have something to do". I think Alangara is pretty well covered for the "game mechanics" inclined players, in the sense that we have a lot of varied encounters and "fight quests". But perhaps we could also do more to support the more "lore/roleplayer"-inclined players. For instance, player housing, and similar methods of letting the players have an impact on the world (both "lore-wise" as well as on the "physical" world itself).

Thank you for writing this post, it was interesting (and useful) to read about the kind of things you find interesting as a player!

[Somnium]

Heh, I write too slowly, if Tara has the time to respond two times while I am writing my first answer!

So here is the thing..... If one could come up with something, to give players enough of an edge to be worth spending time on, while at the same time not terrible disturbing class ballance, and while adhering to these also being something we can implement now... then it would be awesome. All in all though the greatest problem here, and in that old server of yours , is the ever-disturbing lack of players.

The same goes for suggestions for content with no direct "edge" game mechanics wise, so let us know if you players have an interest in lore/RP content as well (of course, if there is little interest in this kind of "fluff"/RP content, that effort could be spent elsewhere)

I personally LOOOOOOOVE the fact that nwn1 is truly and utterly free to play and this is thus my personal little contribution to that, and thats how its going to stay....period !

I completely agree with Tara!

Actually came to think of something....Player housing.

As mentioned in my first post, I believe that this could definately be a "tangible" way to let players influence the world.

[Somnium]

Somnium: Created a new topic for player housing specific suggestions: http://alangara.dk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=123&p=645

[BenevolentDevil]

hrmm, as far as donating for server hosting, I'm usually good with doing it if it's not a demanding thing.
The server I mentioned that spammed my email, had absurd cost for hosting. The owner did that so he'd always have the same IP addy , and it would no-lag his huge area world, plus pay for 40 player slots even though there was only 3 players the time I was there.
It's not like, there wasn't options. I even found one guy that would host his PW for free , but the owner wouldn't go for it. Out of some fear, someone was going to "steal" his unique scripts and make a PW clone of his hard work I guess.
There were other options out there, and several offers were thrown on the table, and he just seemed to want to stay in his own thing, with the alleged high cost. That's where I kind of started backing off, and trying to look at the big picture. If I donated 10 dollars that one month, and that would mean the other two part time players made up the rest of the 280 dollar hosting fee in donations?
The math just didn't add up to me , and I figured what was really going on behind the scenes was, dude was pocketing the donations , and probably ran his PW from his house server for free anyways.
Since it never "disappeared" and magically got funded always the last minute ... that's still how I lean in my thoughts.

So, I'm glad we have the free to play option, which is and always will be NWN's best selling point in my opinion.

_________________

Housing - I have never liked the "persistent" housing option , like Hunters Housing and various other things of that nature. Like Tara said, it's ambiguous to setting certain areas specifically for that, and anyone can just grind up enough money/items and pay for one, get a key, buy furniture and have a spot. Then they disappear , and leave it there ... so no one else can attain it.
I dislike Tara having to do work, and add in each individual house/land option as it stands, but he does have some control over how many players and characters can get these things. Also if a player evacuates and doesn't return, the area changed can be recycled , or changed and Tara knows each spot to do so in.
I've played on many a server , and PW housing normally goes like this: House bought, player decorates/sets up as they like. After the novelty has worn off, it's no longer even used/visited ... unless storage chest are in there.
I got aggravated as a DM on one of these type of places, because it seemed that only the owner player of a house, was the only person to ever see the inside of their house.
I thought, " what is the point of having a nice decorated house, if you never showed it off?" , " DO people never invite their friends over for dinner and drinks? " What about get togethers and gatherings? "

In Alangara, the way Tara builds is worth having spent the 250k and load of cherries hands down. It' s impressive and makes for unique experiences. Jes plans on staying in her house, her friends and companions will often find here there , they will get invites to come over for occasions , dinner, tea , or just hanging out.
I think if Tara takes the time to put in the module and builds it, by gosh ... I am going to USE it! It's not going to just be "empty-space" or ignored later on.
I liked getting invited to Goriolas' house, and him showing her around it a bit. It was great RP , and nice way to feature something normally not open to the public.

But that's me, I'm a role-player that likes action and things to do. Not everything has to be about combat though.

+++++++

Farming, I thought that very nice/neat ... I'm still using my farm , it' s just not a high priority for Jes anymore now I filled my house cherry quota , it's still useful beyond the last quest I think, but I'm glad it goes to where it's something you don't have to focus on much after the main quest is over.

+++++
Crafting ... I'm on the fence about. It does give others some extra things to do ,but usually it takes severe dedication to gather materials, and then go attempt to mak something, slowly raising the skills up just to make rather normal/mundane, or less than what you can buy already stuff.
I think the forge system here works nicely enough for what it does.
Other craft options , like a wizards ability to make potions, and wands , or scrolls might be handy, I don't know if those crafts have been nerrfed or not , I hadn't taken those feats ... but if this was an option, it'd be cool to have a shop/merchant a character making these potions could "sell" to the NPC, and when other characters come in to shop to buy, it sends a percentage payment to the crafting character? The shop probably would only buy say 10 potions of the same type at a time , so you wouldn't have abnormal amounts of easy made pots and such just taking up inventory space.
I have no idea if that's possible, or even if it actually be useful/beneficial.

On one hand , crafting if you have to gather materials , encourages those that craft to get out and explore, find and gather materials.
But, it can also be akin to slaying goblins for 1000 times over ... tedious, and monotonous too.
And, like I've seen on other CNR servers, it can get in the way of other aspects. One I played on with a friend, that's all anyone there did ... rush out to find the components, run back to the crafting halls to make items. If everyone is crafting, no one is adventuring, and they are usually too busy to stop and RP, or partake in quest, adventures, or interact beyond trading/buying/selling wares.
That's too ... " shop simulation" for my taste , lol.

++++++

Puzzles and riddles are somewhat nice in dungeons and areas for a bit of extra. My only two complaints with those is, once you figure them out, it's nothing for your alts to go do. The other bothersome aspect is, these puzzles are challenging the player, not the actual characters. Anoksuna by her stats is smarter than I am. Jes is around my same average intelligence. But if I had to say, put all the blue stones in one box, and all the red stones in another box after finding them all ... , that's challenging my intelligence/perception and not really the characters.
There's a fine line there , between it being a video game ( challenging the player/controller ) and a Role-Playing game environment ( challenging the characters themselves. )

+++++

I think, Alangara could use it's own unique massive dungeon. Something akin to Undermountain, or other vast places of exploration ... Alangara has a lot of nicely done, and challenging areas for specific level/party ranges already ...
It seems to be lacking that big "attraction" , where you could go in a low level, and do a bit , but eventually might not be able to go any farther do to it being too tough, or not having enough supplies.
Quite possibly have some of it change around from time to time, or even make it randomized ... so players never know what to expect?
I'm just spitballing there really.
The "reason" to go down and try it, wouldn't be to complete quest specifically ( though those could be included ) , one would go there to explore, one would go there to challenge themselves. Perhaps there are useful items/treasures down there you can't get anywhere else? And we are talking a dungeon big and vast, and runs deep or up ... or something. It's expanse t self is a mystery ... something players could go into and spend hours in , and never really complete? Or have to level 40 or reborn to maybe complete?

Most worlds/realms got at least one of these large danger filled places of interest , and in PnP I recall, made these realms/worlds popular to participate in.

But, it's not like we don't have tons of places to go and see as it is, so that's not really a necessity.

+++++
Yeah, lol, I found that Isle of Aloy ... by accident. Instant death awaits thee if one takes that boat!

+++++

[BenevolentDevil]

Maybe, have been thinking of things the wrong way a bit here.

I was looking at basic mechanics or systems from other places , and was basing some of my likes on those aspects. But as cool as I found those features , again I will state ... it wasn't enough to keep me there playing, and in many cases I didn't actually enjoy the world/realm. The one I gave the lengthy example from, I found more aggravation than enjoyment. It was huge and empty most the time. I hated that it took me a half hour, before I could get to place to do combat or things that helped advance my character.

I am not a fan of MMO style PWs.
I do believe in quality over quantity aspect. I tried places like Thain, Aerilith, Nordock ... ect. Usually there was less an RP aspect to these places, and more game style intrusions. Or crappy DMs , or things just to bland/generic or over-used.
Oh, a crypt you say? Filled with undead? hmmm, A lich haunts it eh? ... Oh, there are nine of those such crypts scattered around here? Oh joy.

If I had played on places, where my characters likes, dislikes, personalities, and style didn't matter to anyone else, I was just a class with numbers , mechanics, and build options ( you'd be surprised at how many players told me I build my characters "wrong" lol ), I would eventually get bored and leave, no matter how many players still play there.
DM interaction that's more an "event" , than an adventure/quest , like say a task for players to rush out, and the first to bring back a tennis ball wins ... isn't a real DM interactive thing to me. DMs that hand out "rp-xp" for these massively multiplayer "games" , also irritate me because most of them aren't role-playing, just performing mechanical task.

No, the best things is what immerses your characters into the world around them. Alangara starts off with this, with it's gorgeous looks, and interesting starting sequence. It gets you right into doing things and earning some much needed starting levels.
It gives you an opportunity to explore the city and get some custom looks while doing one task, and shop a bit if you are smart enough to do so while looking for a set of pipes/flute for the druid.
Custom looks in my opinion, helps players "get into" the role and their characters. The more style and unique look they can pull off, the more it seems players enjoy their characters. I have never enjoyed playing on any PW or Module, where CEP wasn't used, and tailoring wasn't an option. I can't stand the bland , generic and cheesey looks of the "normal" content by itself. Everyone kinda tends to look the same , and it's just ... bleh to me.
That reminds me, I got to find that fix for the cloak thing ...

I think, maybe some DM interaction will be somewhat needed or desired at some point. I think maybe , that's why I find "lulls" or slow-downs a bit. While I have task to still perform, and do ... there's that aspect that more lore could be learned, some extra adventures, quest, plots, intrigue, or mysteries could be a growing part of the experiences.
Of course, I am eventually going to partake in such a role , if Tara still desires me to, so I will be able to help other players/characters in those regards.
Maybe between me doing that , and fulfilling my characters task, it'll keep me busy enough that I will not need much DM interaction for my own characters , lol.

I happen to be somewhat creative, and instinctively managed to work storylines of my characters that just happen to fit in/work with the InnerRealms nicely. I got lucky , especially on Anoksuna because I was stretching her aspects in my stories , and did not actually know it could fit in.

Definitely the most fun I have, is interacting with other characters/players. I think that makes a huge difference in any world or realm.
I don't always have to go out clubbing monsters , or gain combat xp , or finish up a quest task. I'm just as happy to sit around and RP if desired as well.

So, despite my long winded original post, I think things here are great, and I'm not sure why I posted what I did before , besides just sharing really.
Or hope that it sparks some inspiration for ideas somewhere in there.

[BenevolentDevil]

On Lore:
I think Lore , especially with the Unique setting that Alangara is , is HIGHLY important. While there would be many players, that find it as "fluff", or un-interested ( after all , you don't "need" to know Zerthin is a God, in order to scalp goblins ) , those that have main prominent characters , and that RP do need some information and lore to go on.

Just the other day, last week sometime, Yoshi's player was on, and I sent him a tell , asking if he was doing alright.
He told me he just completed the Library Quest , book riddle. He said , that was interesting , because other wise he probably wouldn't have ever read any of those books. Like most, he wasn't interested in any "fluff" , and only did so because the quest was designed to make you pay attention to the information in the books provided.
I was hoping he took more out of it than that, but maybe not.

But, I can take Jes to the Library, grab a book off the shelf ... take it to Yoshi , and find a way to RP about the lore inside if needs be.
Lore is just as much a tool, as it is immersive aspects.

Say, like I passed through the Ruined Path , on my way to the graveyard ... on the way, I looked for a way to get off the "path" and explore the ruin portions. The Captain at the gate, spoke of " they have the path cleared now", insinuating there possibly could be monsters in the area, or were.
As I walked passed and entered the graveyard, Jes was highly interested in Balder's history , and those ruins. But Lanselare wasn't on , to tell her things about it, so it remains a curiosity for her. Once in the graveyard, there's potential for "more" there too.
The large center crypt for example, looks like it should be a spot to enter and face some horribleness inside it.
There are other crypts as well ... and while I have not been able to get any farther in the Bag-Man's crypt due to DCs on locked doors, Jes did wonder why that crypt had undead in it, and the rest of the graveyard was very peaceful. There had to be a reason, the tax man couldn't rest right?
A reason for the undead.
What are those reasons? Why there? What happened? Is something still going on to keep the dead restless? I someone or something to blame for it?

Lol, so to me lore is useful, and needed. I think it should be somewhat provided , so those players that do want it/need it , have it available.
Those not interested, and go about their blissful ignorance if they desire to I guess. I personally don't see how someone could RP in the InnerRealms, with not knowing anything about it myself, though.

[tarashon]

Just a short reply here...

You seem to want some special higlevel challanges, cryps with undeads, special underground places...

Now WHO and WHAT convinced you these things are not allready there ? - remember the server was build in a time with lots of players making the main demand of areas being for level 30+ and reborns....

As for the lore i 100% agree and your remark about RPing the books. Well severel of these books are actually ingame places, making it excactly that, something real to RP and explore...

/tara