Forge cost of gear and a bit on wizards vs fighters

[Warchief]

I'm making a new topic on this so it doesn't clutter feedback and a new topic also allows for more debates to be made on this. On the topic of the forge, once the server is back up I can try to help you understand it since the forge is really the only place that I have seen so far that gives gear progression at a cost. Now on the topic of wizards:

Wizards will pretty much only use the forge to max out spell slots and let us assume we can ignore the armour and staff slots for spell slot purposes here. You can potentially make each item have 5 spell slots of whatever you choose (and 4 for your rings since I would assume that the +3 int rings from the shop are pretty much needed to max int effectively). Now that will end up being somewhere around 40 - 50 extra spell slots which is a lot but again it comes down to cost. Let us assume that you will want level 7-9 slots, while the forge only lets you choose one of each slot per enchanting, it is still a large amount once you are done.

Now for cost:

It costs 2 forge tokens per level 7-9 slot (or is it 6 -9 I forget) and 1 forge toke for anything lower than that. Each enchantment also increases the cost of the next one by 2 forge tokens (i.e. 1 spell slot costs 2, 2nd spell slot will then cost 4 to add, 3rd costs 6 to add etc.). Now for an item with full 5 spell slots, that will cost a total of 30 forge tokens (2 + 4 + 6 + 8 + 10 = 30). Now a main toon can acquire forge tokens for 15k gold and 5 cherries. This means that each item fully maxed out will cost a total of 450k gold and 150 cherries or can pay full price and pay 750k.

Now I dunno how many of us are millionaires on Alangara but acquiring 450k is a huge amount of time and grinding which is not exactly a lot of fun. So yes there is the potential for a large amount of spell slots, but it is just not cost effective. A fighter can max out gear with about anywhere from 24 - 44 tokens (depending on weapon size and this is for +6 boots and amulet since other gear can be bought) so that is 660k and 220 cherries for a maxed out large weapon and +6 amulet and boots (or using forge tokens from quests to save on gold and cherries but not taking that into account on this post to avoid too many variables). Then the fighter class just needs roughly 700k for armour, 170k for belt, roughly 200k for helm. So overall, maxed out fighter gear costs roughly 1.7 million gold give or take a few thousand gold.

Now for the math on a mage:

450k per spell slot item and lets assume helm, cloak, bracers and boots for now. That is already 1.8 million gold and that is not even counting staff costs, rings, amulet and robes. Just to have a complete overall cost (and this is just an estimate since I can't get in game and look at the Tolmar shop to confirm. Rings will cost roughly 25k each for the +3 int and then 28 forge tokens each for the 4 spell slots (4 +6+8+10 = 28) for another 420k gold each + 140 cherries EACH! Now we are up to 2.6 million gold before Tolmar robes and amulet. Assuming they cost around the same as the fighter version (although likely more expensive) that is roughly another million gold for a grand total of 3.6 million gold. That is over double of a fighter and a fighter not only gets more ac, unlimited uses of a multiple damage source weapon AND doesn't really need to rest in order to continue adventuring.

See the balance issue yet? But wait! There is more!

Combat:

Assuming 5 attacks per round on a fighter class and let us ignore the random chance of criticals for now. A fighter will usually deal roughly 60 - 75 damage per hit with a fully forged large weapon with thunderstrike enchantment. 60 - 75 x 5 attacks = 300- 375 per round unlimited times until a monster is dead regardless of level.

Now with damage progression of spells, let us assume that a maximized icestorm does 500 damage. 500 x 2 spells per round with haste = 1000 damage per round. Sure that is 1000 damage per round AOE so effectively a lot higher than that BUT they are limited to their spell slots then they have to wait to rest for roughly 10 - 20 min due to the large amount of spawns. Then their damage drops to that roughly 60 - 100 per round and instead of point and click then watch their character fight, they have to constantly push that one button over and over and constantly target the monster over and over. Not only does this get boring very quickly but what if you misclick and target your friend or summons? Ooops wasted round of 0 damage. Now one can argue the added Damage that pets are dealing but again that requires the player to sit and watch and wait.

Now of course there is always pros and cons to both just like there are pros and cons to the rest timer. The overall key thing at the end of the day is finding the right balance which is much easier said than done. Now in a balanced party, this issue becomes less and less of an issue since a good group can take on most challenges within the time in between rests, the issue is only as big as this rant when either solo, or in a small group.

Anyway this ended up being longer than I thought it would be but just figured I would state the facts and open up the issue for discussion or shed some light on the true cost behind the balance between fighter classes and caster classes.

[Noskard]

In my opinion as a Wiz Liz Nerdyness from reading multiple books, lores, etc... (Skip all the paragraph if you just want the TL/DR version of it.)

In trying to defend the price, I find it fair to be honest considering the circumstances at hand. PVP Wise let's be honest, the fighter is at a complete disadvantage, once time stop goes off, pop your buffs it's over yata yata. Roleplaying wise, Wizards/Sorcerers/Clerics, are all at the advantage in this regard because of their capabilities. But the problem now comes to PVE and grinding fest as we struggle to get to level 40 with the current focus on our lovely forge cost gear to try and bring us up to speed in these scenarios. Sadly wizards are not wizards anymore as I stare at my small lovely farm harvesting the mushrooms. My character that I thought would be effective and helpful in multiple case scenarios has only resorted to me facing one single. Scenario.

Which is buff everyone with the common empowered/maximized/extended Bull's Strength, Endurance, Cat's Grace, Flame Weapon, Keen Edge, Greater Magic Weapon, Improved Invisibility, Mass Haste, Protection from Spells, Clarity, Mage Armor, Resist Energy, and Stoneskin (Plus whatever else I missed.) Literally I have it memorized almost in real life because that's all I can really do. There is no 'offensive' type wizardry/sorcery play. Because all the offensive spells falls under "Ice Storm, Fireball, Delayed Fireball, IGMS (Very rare circumstances and even then I hardly use it unless I want to fill in a spot I need.), and WotB (For mobs without the death immunity extremely rare.)"

Here's a big list of spells that right now I have tried and seemed rather useless, Ray of Enfeeblement, Melf's Acid Arrow, Lightning Bolt, Slow, Circle of Death, Dismissal, Dominate Person, Polymorph Self, Phantasmal Killer, Stone to Flesh, Flesh to Stone, Legend Lore, ILMS (Another version of Firebrand but useless if you can just have the staff.), Enervation, Mind Fog, Banishment, Prismatic Spray (Outdone by Ice Storm.), Meteor Swarm (Ineffective compared to ice storm. Unless said monster fails its reflex save, which let's be honest the saves are very high.), Black Blade of Disaster, Blackstaff, Tenser's Transformation, and the list goes on. I'd hate to be disappointed in seeing the damage of Hellball, and Ruin spells in play if it doesn't do more damage then a maximized Ice Storm. (Have yet to test it, but ye.)

The reason why I brought up all these spells, is that honestly the spell slots are not even worth the money unless you have extras and you might as well toss it in. Because currently it's just giving casters more 'time' to effectively spam an enemy, and in the end. At this current state of things if fighting a boss with mass HP and current buffs. I can assure you as a wizard I will not be able to live up to a fighters capabilities in the long run. Any long drawn out fights will be a joke to said casters currently. As for mobs I will admit I can mow them down with relative ease if given the time, but again the resting is handicapping the wizards capabilities of running up with fighters consistent regeneration/APR/Damage per round. Causing me to only be as useful for 1/4th of the run, if given the spell slots as listed above to increase said slots. (Which already I have a lot of spell slots with 48 Int, and current gear equipped.) But given said full gear, I perhaps could maybe solo an entire grinding area of the Owlbears (Hellknights or something they are called.) at least if my Golem survives the onslaught of being surrounded and stabbed to death or if another player is there.

But then again I can't really vouch for the fighters at the moment, as my character at most is only level 6? I think at least, so far though I am having a way easier time and have yet to die since the beginning of the character creation. (I think, maybe died once cannot remember.) Meanwhile, my wizard with the resting cap, plus spell slots I can assure you died. A lot. I have to play more reserved, and puppet master as I send everyone else out in front of me to die. Something as much as I enjoy but currently I wish Wizards were not "Summoners". If anything I now realized why someone said Sorcerers were better. And that's because of the limitation of spell effectiveness. Whilst Wizards are MADE to be the jack of all trades, the masterminds, the ones that plans one step ahead of their adventure and brings ruin and destruction upon their enemies. Because they prepared for it. Now, I'd change my opinion if several of the wizard spells were changed such as "Tenser's Transformation" because then they are effective to being spellswords, or Fighter/Wizard builds. Sadly not the case, and therefore Wizards are just a weaker version of Sorcerers nothing more. (PVE wise at least, PVP a pure wizard build can effectively kill everybody with relative ease, whilst sorcerers are built for one purpose, then again Sorcerers in this server I realized CAN be built in numerous and scary ways compared to a wizard which is basically telling me, 'good luck'.)

-----------TL/DR---------

Wizards are basically Sorcerers except worst in current state of the spells not effective in epic levels, or changed to be suited for multi-purpose builds. Causing wizards to be just a title and way underrated in respect of PVE, in regards to PVP and RP they are still a force to be reckoned with I assure you I will kill you with a single spell. In matter of fact any caster can be that deadly in that regard. In terms of PVE combat efficiency you can be fully equipped and geared but you will not out sustain, out damage a melee build because in the long run you're either going to be carried like Master Yoda and then finally show off your three minute clip of being a absolute Bada**. Or you are batman throughout the dungeon and then Bane (Boss) breaks your spine and you're done kid. Gear wise, Spell Slots as I read from Warchiefs post if it is 3.6 million I suppose it is rightfully priced because if given all the money and lets say I have 10 slots in 7th 8th 9th (All filled with ice storm.) I can probably dish out an approximate 5,400 more damage to be distributed against the mobs. Which is probably deadly against boss if I SAVE everything to that fight. If following the Master Yoda carrying method. But an efficient Paladin build with current buffs I can probably be safe to say with Wizards buff as well on top of it be just as deadly if not even more deadlier then your typical wizard blast. \

I'll refer you to this video, of what Wizards are currently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coYieIF8I5M