Passage of time and aging in Alangara

[Twilighteyes]

Ok, this topic has been brought up once or twice in game and I cannot seem to find an answer in the lore section. Do characters age? Alangara being the "child" of a diety contest makes one wonder what is the passage of time like?

I had always assumed the characters ceased aging once they arrived to the inner realms as the standard method of entry is mortal death.

Insight on this would be awesome OR someone point my blind self in the right direction..

[BenevolentDevil]

I don't know the official "rule" of it, but I have always kinda RP'd it differently from character to character ...

Jess is getting older ( growing up/maturing )but hasn't really "aged" , Anoksuna is already old ,hahaha ... already lived 200 years prior to dying and being reformed in Inner Realms, around the same age ... Since she lives at least another 800 years before old age , I hadn't worried with her on that.

Azzy ... doesn't age. She really doesn't need a lot of sleep , just occasional rest , doesn't need to eat (but can ) doesn't scar , doesn't age physically.
She was created , by Zertihn , not born ... there' s no telling her actual age, and since time doesn't really effect her , she wouldn't have paid attention to how many years have passed. Only Zerty would know that really, ..hehehe. Azzy could have been in his Temple guarding since the beginning ,or been recently created ... again only Zerty knows.

Izami is way younger than Incartus , given the history ... as a planar creature , she ages differently anyways. Incartus was already older when they were together and she was known as Enma in their home world and clan. However, he was gated or teleported to the inner realms ( i think ) , and she died and was formed here ( The feelings and fleeting dreamlike images of her old life remain,but she has no real memories of her former life.) ... , so unsure if age will matter for her as well, because like Anoksuna ... she lives so long anyways, it wouldn't matter.


The werewolf cleric ... since she is Lycan she would age, but I would think the affliction would slow down the process giving her longevity , which to any normal human might seem like immortality , but just lives a really long time ( provided she isn't stabbed with a silver something! hahaha!)

Anyways,I figured aging was up to the player on how that effects their own characters , just like perma death being at the player's discretion.
I never asked though, just played it this way ...

[tarashon]

Howdy

As the Inner Realms is indeed the "homeplane of Zertihn" there is no aging as with all other realms a character enters with their respective God, after dying. There are a few differences though.

1. Characters don't come to the Inner Realms because its their Gods realm but rather they are summoned here for a second chance.

2. Incartus ( I asume ) was not gated or teleported to the Inner Realms as no creature enter the Inner Realms without a direct summon from Zertihn ( or rather as the Inner realms has become part of him and vice versa and since they still have a lot of legacy from their original creator Gods - Talos, Auril and CHauntea - they are actually a living entity of themselves and as such they can summon souls but only in accordance with the will of Zertihn, consciously or not ).

IF and when characters or other entities age in the Inner Realms it is indeed a so perhaps manifestation of their own devellopment and perception hereof and not because the physically are dying of age.

All this being said there might be more to it but I have not really given it much thought lore wise so perhaps this will be a lore project for the future for me to develop more upon, since I see it actually have and can have even more interesting RP and lore consequences.

/tara

[BenevolentDevil]

I just meant,I didn't think Incartus died to come there. ( I could be wrong,his bio is confusing hahaha)

If no one ages in the Inner Realms, then there would be children there forever

I kind of like the perception approach.

Maybe a blend of personal preference, and the perception clause? As far as characters go?

I just personally don't want to associate leveling, with aging. Of course characters are going to get wiser, more experienced ... , maybe takes a few years to get to epic and beyond , but nothing major.

Incartus is RP-ing his aging for a reason I think.

[Twilighteyes]

I was just curious as that is a subject that hasn't come up before, at least not with me. Incartus Rp'ing the char as aging is awesome and I'll back it with supporting rp from my characters. However if a mad human warlord wants to plan an assault on a place such as New Iceport but his plans require nearly a century of preparation? Well it might be good to know that he is not going to wither away before stage one is complete

Far as character arrivals? Rani, merrily walking thru the woods on a misty cool morning and next she knew... Willa, on a hunt and next thing she knew.. Take that as you will but only one of my alangara toons actually was aware of her death and arrival here. Rani may very well have been clubbed in the head by a forest ogre, Willa may not have been the hunter as she thought an instead fallen as prey.. This detail of nearly all my characters is somethjng I leave open.

[BenevolentDevil]

In all my table top years of playing any fantasy based game, aging was only done in accordance to the stories/tales.

Sometimes as DM i'd "fast-forward" events and time a bit, especially if player characters had children needing born, or some event was taking place that required it.

Otherwise, it's just assumed that characters age appropriately, and some bit of fudging/overlooking that realistic approach . simply because you want your heroes and villians to last a longtime!

And even that would be dependent on how time works at the whim of Zerithn in the first place. I always say this "world" in character, but I think the inner realms is kind of it's own plane of existence ... just as profound as say the 44rth layer of the abyss, or the 5th layer of the heavens , or the elemental planes. ( from what I have gathered since playing here ) ...

I met a character ( Gorias? I forget excatly the name ), whom collected these "strange books from above" ... in his RP , which were the standard NWN books found in treasure tables. He played it as having no knowledge of the Aber-Toril , and the books pointed to a strange realm somewhere beyond perception "above" the one he was in. Jess recognized the tomes, ( he produced one Titled "Waterdeep" , as that's where she from , explained a bit about it to him. )

However ... there's actually no telling how long the Inner realms have existed ( except by Tara of course ) .... it could be, that Aber-Toril is long gone, or synced with the same timeline ... or the past of Inner realms, could be the future or far past of Aber-Toril in comparison.

There's also no way to tell how long characters that did die to be reformed here , were dead either. was it minutes, days , hours, or years? Centuries? Whole Ages?


Anoksuna I have half fancied , came from another "world" or realm ... BUT, it could entirely be just as possible, she is from a Future of another world, or ancient past of this one ... , that's my "open ended " spot in that, allowing Tara ( or DMs ) to form their own conclusion and base the RP around that.
Maybe the Horrors are just demons. Or they can be something else ... It could have been raw forces of Chaos that turned into Torklaz , or they could be far older, more ancient that even AO ... somewhere out there in the astral, from the moment there was sound, they existed ...
*shrugs* who knows ? She doesn't know ... all she knows was her world was ravaged by these unspeakable, un-numberable creatures of malice, hate, destruction, despair, ...ect ...
She was born in one of the few surviving underground complexes , built and warded against such an "invasion" , and wasn't until she was a pre-teen did the doors open, and the world that was left emerged slowly to reform and rebuild itself.

It could entirely be possible ... she had been dead so long before reformed , all those events are so far away , or so distant in the past or so far in the future ... it'll never come to pass in the inner realms. Or even in an alternate reality , which has it's own events, time-line, ..anything of that nature. She just thinks, because she's there, she will be a beacon that will make them come.
It doesn't really mean that's how it is, it's just her thoughts and perception. ( slight obsession trait. )

The Real reason she is there, would be at least some part of Zerty , wanted her there... for reasons unknown to any, maybe even himself.
It could be simple ... like she is a powerful "hero" , and one who could inspire Hope where is needed, to the common masses.
It could be she's needed to combat any horrors that -might- arrive.
It could be , he just liked her soul ... again, who knows? *shrugs* could be any reason ...

So again, I will say ... I like how things are perceived.
Zerty for instance, would have control over time in his own plane ... a part of him, must think it's important to reflect what he knows, and naturally things grow with time like trees, grass, babies ... ect. He most likely unconsciously sets this measurement himself, not really a whim , but so things go along as he understands it should. ( I hope that was clear enough , lol )

I also can see how perspective of a player character would come into focus there ... if the character wasn't aware of the "difference" in time, it's entirely possible they age simply because that's natural, and how their mind perceives the world working in that way.
Like for instance, Incartus believes he's getting older, so he may very well be getting older ... just because that's how his mind perceives the natural event of time.

For Celestial based creatures ( or infernal ones) , they aren't subjected to time in the sense someone on the Prime plane is ... it's not a thought really to them. If you watch Azzy in RP, she has no sense of "time" at all. I've been playing her, as it's impossible for her to be focused on past events, she only concerns herself with " the now, and what will be". < But again she doesn't refer to anything specific, just vague references ... because she lacks the knowledge of time itself ...

When she told Incartus , Hope for it and it will be ... she sees if he did Hope, it's already came to pass. She can see the moment it happens, but how much time passes in between the Now and What Will be ... she has absolutely no concept of. To her the Sun comes up and sets because that's what Zerty wills it to do. It only means something, because it means something to Him.

She has no concept that things will take "time" to accomplish , like when she's jibber-jabbering away, and Willa is itching in a hurry to get to her farm ... She would talk to Willa until Willa's bones turned to dust , because she has no concept of time passing, lol. Willa wants to get something done , quickly as possible ... Azzy could stop and smell the flowers, letting entire ages pass , and still never get a sense of urgency , hahaha.

[tarashon]

Howdy all, and might I say very interesting debate this

To try to address a few things brought forth...

1.

All characters entering the Inner Realms have indeed died first. The technical reason i've always kinda kept to myself and only in the few last days of Alangara's last run to a group of Reborns taking the debate so far out philosophically that Tarasan Trueheart had to reveal it.

Zertihn besides being God of the portefolios "Just rulership, Culture and civilisation" is as most known also HOPE itself. Seen from the perspective of divinity ( Gods ) alone , he was merely at the time he discovered the Inner Realms a DEMI POWER. As such his divine power should in itself not have been even remotely enough to actually do anything to or with these interlinked pocketplanes being...

The Icedark - Auril's domain
The Middlelands - Chauntea's domain
The Tornlands - Talos' domain

However being so many different aspects of reality, including HOPE and having an indept concept of creation, time and mass/energy itlsef from being both the Son of Xymor - dragon god of wisdom and an incarnation of the Paragon of the Silverdragons ( the very first silverdragon created/emanated by/from the raw chaos of the pre-prime of creation he intervened in what would have been otherwise the destruction and death of these 3 interlinked planes.

The main force and motivation to do this was his aspect of HOPE. To give hope where there was none...

After having helped end the war that was tearing the Inner Realms apart by "defeating" ( more likely exspelling from the plane ) the Protagonist of Chaos he actually took on the part of these Gods in the Inner Realms as they had long since abandoned and forgotten their contest and project. A project that to them above all was a learning excersise in ages and realities long lost. As he took over the roles of the three Gods to reform and reshape the Inner Realms he realised that within all portefolio's ( Gods domains ) was the spire of both hope and dispair and that he as such actually had parts of his innermost being integrated in all things divine and therefore was quite capable of mimic'ing all known Gods.

To understand Zertihn one most also realise that above all else he is a "seeker of wisdom" and while being utterly true to his word ( lawfull ) he is also extremely openminded and chaotic in nature. To him reality is the moron's view upon the world and realities (plural) the only conceot that even remotely makes any sense, all thou he is even challenging that concept fiercely.

( What he usually uses to "measure the inmeasurable" is potentiality - which may or may now be described another time )

All this however means that it was his aspect of hope that saved the Inner Realms and it was that aspect that startet to bring new souls into the realm. The reason for this was to save them from the wall of the infidels , the most ultimate dispair in the known multiverse. As such only dead souls were snatched from their infernal fate.

The reason he could do this was by explicit permission from AO, after debating many aspects of possible future's nd devellopments of AO's current multiverse. Knowledge kept strictly between him and AO. ( Actually he has debated it alot with his mentor, the Lady of Pain of Sigil, and most likely with his ost valued friend NUUL, but that is for another story ).

Needless to say Zertihn, being an extremely powerfull psionisist to the level of being one of the select few being to battle the ithilid overmind, head on face to face, in the mindscape and live to tell the tale, was more than aware of the devestating effect on a mortal, or immortal, psyche realising what fate would have been there for them. Thus he utterly removed the reality of the dispair from each and every summon. Being an immense believer in personal freedom he did not want to alter the individuals perception of the world and their own history so he merely left it for their own psyche to subconsciensly explain why they had arived. For sor some this will be minute details of what actually transpired, for other uterly figments of imagination and most again a more or less powerfull blur of the events leading up to their arival. Very few however realise they escaped deaths grip, allthough some do.

2.

The Inner Realms were originally placed as a pocket dimensions in the core of toril, thousands of miles below the Underdark. As such their lore and natural belonging was to that of the pantheon of Toril. This persisted also after Zertihn found it and after the battle with the Protagonist of Chaos rivitalized it. However as the last age of the Inner Realms ( "Alanagara Reborn" ) ended with Tarasan Trueheart revealing that there was infact only one God oversing it all and playing out the part of the others, Zertihn realised that it was time to devellop once again and also to "up the ante". Thus he completely recreated the Intire Inner realms and expanded it considerably from the 3 original continents. Also he once again broke any known universal law of divine conduct merging in the powers of both the Aspects ( exsample of one of those would be the Lady of Pain ) and divinity , sanctioned and aproved by both the Aspects and AO. Expanding upon reality in such a manner unheard of before instantly elevated Zertihn to the rank of "AO" in the Inner Realms and formidable greater power under AO, while once again breaking all rules by actually limiting himsself to function as still a demipower outside in the multiverse for reason not tied directly to the Inner Realms.

The Inner Realms, being both the "divine homeplane of Zertihn the God" and the "Centre of Hope" sports some heavy variations from "the normal realms and planes in the multiverse".

All things are much more powerfull in the Inner Realms forcing growth upon the player characters in a unseen scale in the multiverse. Thus a level 40 reborn character in the Inner Realms will be overwhelmingly powerfull outside the Inner realms. A level 40 reborn ending up in Ravenloft would be supreme in power in whatever realm he or she reached and the only "salvation" for their present rules would be their ability to expell others from their realm at will.

Thus the Inner realms match much more those of the heavens or the hells than any primeplane allthough uniqely set apart from those as well.

3.

One of the main concept in the Inner Realms is the uniqe power of mortals. Zertihn obviously encourages this growth by the intire setup of the Inner Realms but he does much more than that. Being an ever wandering seeker of wisdom Zertihn actively learns from each and every soul entering his domain. What he has long since realised is that the limitations in perception of a mortal and the here of following limited point of view is not only a limit. It is the very foundation for creating something uniqe. As such all mortals carry with them a uniqe perception of the world, a uniqe ideolegy and so forth. Zerithn's not only learns from each of these but he infact allows them to directly influence the Inner Realms - under supervision by both the Inner Realms themselves and his direct consciousness.

It is also the understanding of this knowledge that leads for mortals to be able to become reborn. As such all Reborns therefore are the prime agents of a given cause or ideolegy or specific Gods portefolio's. Most Reborns directly follow a given God and following a path that would eventually lead them to potentially become CHOSEN og said Diety. A few however stroll out upon paths unknown.

No player character may become "reborn of Zertihn" and all Reborns of him during the existance of the Inner Realms have been Aspects of Zertihn, in one way or other.

( a character that has followed Zertihn will therefore "break loose", some way or other in their divine march towards divinity, defining their own uniqe aproach to things ).

4.

Age is indeed not a matter in the Inner Realms but most commoners actually live governed by the rules of any other primeplane experiencing sickness age etc. They do this becourse this is how they collectively experiences and understands the world and as such the Inner Realms abides to their needs and believes. It is commonly known amongst commoners that many adventurers do not seem to age and holds or aquire powers allmost unimaginable, but they are "used to this" and merely refers to these as the "Reborns" or the "Prospects", being those most likely to eventually become Reborns.

Allthough age ultimately is unconsciously defined by the soul itself noone is capeable of actually becoming younger without the direct intereference of the Inner Realms or Zertihn himself.

5.

As mentioned ealier Zertihn was the only actual Diety in the former incarnation of the Inner Realms. In all other planes in the known multiverse this too is the case that only a single diety or a colaboration of likeminded dieties calls a given plane their home and can actually enter it and function there. Thus in the seven heavens even if a follower of a evil God managed to gain entry it would be unable to communicate with its God and the God would loose all communication and knowledge of what was going on there.

As the Inner Realms is also the centre of Hope and seen from a divine perspective Zertihn wish to learn he has uniqely allowed other dieties to "function there by proxy". What this means is that no other gods have actual access there ( unless invited ) but their can communicate freely with their followers there. Zertihn is completely omniscent so whatever transpires between the Gods and their followers is know to him in his aspect of HOPE and aspects of "AO". When dealin with his own portefolio's as diety he is utterly clueless to these things unless informed in more traditional ways. The reason for this selfrestrictment is that he fully realises he would tamper with his own portefolio and personal lerning experience if he had such knowledge available. Thus is is fully possible to fool Zertihn the God of just rulership, culture and civilisation but the instant these things tampers with the Inner Realms, HOPE or inhabitants all is revealed ( and allways were ). Allthough unconfirmed rumors have it that the more furious aspects fo Zertihn both from his lineage as dragon but also as "Initiate of Pain" will enact furious vengeance upon and and all daring to interfeer with the free will and freedom of any souls taking refuge in the Inner Realms. This has also gained him some notions of respect from the more dark side of the multiverse seing that he fiercely defends also their followers right to strife for their hope !

[Twilighteyes]

See this is one of the reasons why I enjoy Alangara so much! It is a place, where even though it's core concept is of homebrew dieties, it has an IMMENSE amount of lore!

The only character I had that was aware of her death on Toril was a very intelligent sun elf. It didn't take much for her to figure something bad had happened when one moment she was in a ships hold with a gnome and 12 crates of alchemist fire and the next she was in a forest talking to a druid!

Granted the first time my character (and myself) was made aware that death was the gateway to Alangara it was via rp with Tarasan Trueheart. That rp session (along with the backing lore) is what made me stay and become a long term player here.

As for the original topic. I have the answer I was seeking, thank you.

[BenevolentDevil]

1.

All characters entering the Inner Realms have indeed died first. The technical reason i've always kinda kept to myself and only in the few last days of Alangara's last run to a group of Reborns taking the debate so far out philosophically that Tarasan Trueheart had to reveal it.

There are some exceptions though right?

Like in the case of Jess ( whom wouldn't have died by being "transplanted" into safe-keeping ) , unless that plane-shift actually killed her, but she wouldn't have had to suffer the fate of the Wall , given her origins.
So, I can't see any reason for Zertihn to "save" her from the dead fate , simply because she wouldn't have been pushed to the wall in the first place.

As far as we have known, The Parents were aided by Zerthin , allowing the Priestess of Sune in Waterdeep to open the only path allowed for the Dragonblood Jess to enter the Inner Realms. ( It was just assumed, all was simply "allowed" by Zertihn , for his own reasons. )
Because, he didn't HAVE to help the half-blood at all, nor did he have to help her parents ... , but he did, and that let them "hide" their daughter from other powers seeking to exploit her uniqueness.
And he allowed them to craft the Island as well, and look in on Jess from time to time.
( of course, Jess knows nothing of any of this ... she knows she was sent away from Waterdeep via a magic ritual spell , but always assumed it didn't work right,and she wound up in this place accidentally. )

So, Zerty, or at least some of his aspects are involved directly there , or her presence , wouldn't have been possible, and she would have had to be hidden away on some other plane, or world.

hmmm, ... well, actually I just thought of something there that could explain such ...
Jess is a celestial creature by birth , and would be tied to the plane she was Born in. Her past is very "un-explored" , save what explanations I gave that all she knew of her life, was being an orphan and living in Waterdeep ... if she had been conceived or born in Zerthin's realm , she would be inexplicably tied to it as well. As in, thats where she'd "reform" is she did "die" or physical form got destroyed, instead of any other "heaven" she normally would be tied to.
Not sure on that 100%,but a possibility per say.

[tarashon]

Howdy

First of Jessandra is on all account THEE exception as I chose to RP it out directly with Zertihns active intervention. As such obviously anything is possible.

However like you kinda hinted or speculated in several things in your own story part for her could be intertwined in such a way that it held true to the "normal procedures".

Fx was the dragon father of her not always divine and as such she might have been semi mortal ( if one can call the offspring of a mighty plane dragon that ) from her birth. Part of the plan against Loki could then be to actually reform her completely divine inside the Inner Realms thus actually slaying her physical body in the process as part of a grander plan to twart Loki's schemes...

Just one option to actually not go outside the normal procedures which would then also be a good idea as gods often clings to rules and systems and breaking these too much might indeed give Loki the possible option to "complaint to AO", which would then be impossible if she was slain first.

On this note it is also important to that Loki or no other power including AO himself cannot see whats going on side the Inner Realms unless explicidly allowed by Zertihn. Even the communication between priests and their gods "is granted access by the inner realms/Zertihn firewall". Thus if loki have seen her inside the inner realms here are some different options as to how this could have come to pass...

A: Serakiel or another is messing with his mind showing him whatever illusions ( even if its a replicate of what they themself have seen ).

( Serakiel is obviously allowed passage to see or drop in on her daughter and no fraud whatsoever is possible so even Loki has no chance in any reality at all to fake being her and should he try to he would have been met with a wrathfull divine version of the same type of retalliation spells for scrying basically blasting him into pieces of intense pain until he can reform himself - likely within weeks being divine and that the object was merely to teach the intruder not to try mess with the Inner Realms. However Loki is only a minor diety and thus hopelessly inferior powerwise; Not to be confused with sneaky wise ! )

B: He is imagining things and interpreting his own imaginations as "a sight".

C: part of Jessandra actually is calling out for him for some reason and Zertihn and or the Inner Realms for some reason is allowing this to happen.

/tara