Upping the XP From Higher Level Quests

[Balkoth]

Tara has stated that one of his main goals is to make it so you can effectively play the server as a single player module, at least until level 20. The module also seems set up in a way so that it encourages going to different areas for the collection quests or other quests rather than simply grinding monsters in one or two zones over and over.

However, this starts falling a bit flat at levels 12+. A quest like Icefang gives a mere 1000 XP and some useless quest rewards (for nearly every character, at least) that cannot even be vendored for a decent amount. The collection quests for the Yetis and Icy Terrors/Feasters only gives 3000 XP. Beetles is also only 3000 XP I believe as well.

Part of the problem is the large loss of XP on death -- even for a killing machine like my WM it usually would take 20-30 minutes of pure grinding to make up for a death. Most characters would take a lot longer. The large quest XP rewards seems intended to make up for the extra risk of venturing into strange new lands and the low XP per kill. If you die trying to kill the high goblins once or two at level 6, you still get 2500 XP which makes up for 4 character deaths if needed. But if you die to the Icy Terrors/Yeti twice at level 15, best case you come out completely neutral on quest XP.

Or, in other words, if quests are supposed to be the main/primary source of XP (and it seems they are), then they need to be like...nearly tripled in some cases for collection quests.

[tarashon]

I'm not really sure about the whole ballance with our new settings Balkoth. Initially we started to toss in all these "gatherer quests" as a mere bonus to make it feel less trivial to grind xp and also obviously to Down some of the grinding time due to the XP rewards.

So the ballance is a delicate one. What I think is a more viable solution could be severel different options..

These options however all depends on a fair and honest evaluation of how much and how often one dies and Thus needs compensations from that expenditure. I am aware though that since this game is old compared to when we ran it last it has so much less players and "single player" deaths will be much more likely to incur now compared to "back then". This is indeed important because the xp cost of dying alone compared to haveing a mate ressurect you is 10-fold...

Option 1 for debate...

Simply lower the cost of dying somewhat...

option 2 for debate...

Some sort of special scriptet powerstone that you activate with the effect of casting ressurrect on you when you die and teleport you away to heroes rest so it cannot be "abused" to force-kill a too strong mob.

Well these two option I atleast can see as interesting choises - feel free to make your opinions heard folks...

[Balkoth]

I'm not really sure about the whole ballance with our new settings Balkoth. Initially we started to toss in all these "gatherer quests" as a mere bonus to make it feel less trivial to grind xp and also obviously to Down some of the grinding time due to the XP rewards.

I'd also think about how long you expect people to take to level. If you expect, for example, 3 hours per level on average (less to start, more at higher levels)...that's 120 hours of playtime just to hit level 40 once. Then you probably need to spend more time gathering gear and unlocking stuff...then getting to max level as Reborn will take another 120+ hours (probably more since half XP). So that's a minimum of 250+ (let's be generous and assume 10 hours at max level in order to unlock Reborn status, probably takes more) hours total. That's like...six times as long as the entire campaigns of Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2. Over 10 times as long as SoU or HotU.

And if you want people to feel like this is a viable "solo" module up to level 20...well, you never have to grind the same area multiple times over in a campaign. I'd suggest rethinking the role of quests and having them be a major bonus -- use them to encourage people to go explore new areas rather than grind XP at some location. I also think adding even some very basic quests (like add "bosses" to some of the areas who drop a token -- basically how the two rat quests, two fungi quests, and goblin quest at low levels work) would help, so people felt like getting to the "end" of areas mattered.

Having these bosses drop at least some reasonable gear will also make it more enjoyable -- and in some cases you can do something like move the Crypt Cloak from a random drop to dropping from a "boss" at the end. Even if these bosses are identical to the trash mobs except with 2 more AC, 2 more AB, and twice the HP or something. It still spices things up and feels more enjoyable to players.

Option 1 for debate...

Simply lower the cost of dying somewhat...

I would go with this. Keep in mind that death penalties are ultimately just time. And if I've spent 90 minutes fighting through several zones to reach a boss and die either to the boss or on the last group before him...well, that's already a harsh penalty even if you didn't remove XP or gold. Even if you "merely" die to the gators in the swamp, that still means you have to run to the portal, run to the Southern Plains, run to Feltman's Trail, run to the Swamp Edge, then run to the Swamp Lake. That's a lot of pure travel time just to get back where you were and it's quite annoying.

Even if you do want to keep XP/gold loss, I don't think it needs to be applied unless you respawn. One of the main reasons for that is immediately removing XP/gold on death tends to impact the front line characters the most. The mage/archer in the back is going to die a lot less...and on top of that, the front line character is probably spending a bunch of money on healing potions that the mage/archer doesn't have to. So that's a bit of a double whammy.

[Balkoth]

That's like...six times as long as the entire campaigns of Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2. Over 10 times as long as SoU or HotU.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying 3 hours per level on average is necessarily too long (PWs and MMOs generally have a longer timescale), just trying to put things in perspective. For example, if your goal is 6+ hours per level after level 20...well, that's 120+ hours right there. And especially if that's more or less just grinding monsters, that can really boring very quickly.

[tarashon]

Read and thinking upon it for the time being...

/tara

[Li'l Rose]

I do not understand the need to reach level 40 as soon as possible. Especially since this is a roleplay server. I would rather just have a fun time playing, even if it means not gaining much levels. Getting xp from a quest is nice, but I prefer something that can help my character.

I like the idea of that free resurrection, but only available as a quest reward, and it should be once per rest at the most. To avoid abuse, could have it heal the creature that killed you. After that, if you die, then you die, lol. Use the trip back to pick up some supplies, and enjoy the scenery. If with a friend, can roleplay about what went wrong, and how to correct it.

Getting a unique drop from a boss is always nice, however it would need to be something that anyone could use. It is fun to finally conquer a tough boss, but not to get a tower shield for your Halfling wizard.

Just my thoughts at the moment. I have enjoyed the server so far, but would be nice to see more people here.

[tarashon]

Howdy Li'l Rose, and thanks for shareing your thoughts

The hole debate about xp, death costs and the like is a somewhat complex matter since it is part of forming a combined strategy to basically make the server more fluent and welcoming to new servers. As such this at this time Means some sort of "dual layer" server that on the one hand makes the server highly playable as a single character and on the other offering fun and challange for an intire party...

On top of that ther Whole concept of a roleplaying server is highly challanged with the overall lack of nwn1 players and the clustering of those present into a few handfull of servers. Basically the servers that has players keeps it and even gain new whereas most others are mostly empty. As such it then has become vital to make our server enjoyable as a singleplayer adventure...

Another thing is the Whole setting and worldlore that also needs to be integreated deeper into quests and dialogs since new players dont have a score of others around to teach them about the World as they had back in the glory days of nwn1.

As you mention there is a need for good and useable gear for all from quests. To this end we have taen up some experimentation with powers able to being projected into any given or specifics gear types. So fx a boss may drop a gem that can be activatyed upon a gear to givbe it ac bonus and regeneration; as an exsample. this however means that it will be more useable for all classes and combinations. One could even make it even more flexible than that. For instance we have a level 35+ headgear where you decide where the statbonusses go and if casters which spelllevels you want added and such, highly customiseable gear really.

As for now however in terms of your gear we need to decide on some changes to our main source of gear, being the magical forge under arons Wonders, and the way this is designed will influence characterts options to single and or Group play alot since gear really sets the limits in this game...

Regardless of all this thanks for shareing your thoughts and ideas and you are always welcome to come up with whatever critisism, suggetions and the like

/Tara

[Somnium]

As for now however in terms of your gear we need to decide on some changes to our main source of gear, being the magical forge under arons Wonders, and the way this is designed will influence characterts options to single and or Group play alot since gear really sets the limits in this game...

On that note, I've been looking into the structure of the current forge scripts, and they are a bit of a mess - at least with regards to changing the enchanting cost.

I'm busy participating in the Ludum Dare this weekend, but let's see if we can arrange to have a chat during next week. We need to coordinate the exact changes we need to make to the forge system, before I start unravelling the system

[tarashon]

Absolutely, and sounds good.

been busy for weeks myself so everything have been somewhat on hold, but lets get the train rollin' Again and I am looking tremendeous forward to redoing the forge and have some chat about ballance isues.

If interested in the subject Li'l Rose read up on the forum about it. Balkoth have been writing quite abit suggestions on these subjects also, so feel free to read up and throw in your comments and ideas/suggestions...

/tara

[Li'l Rose]

I have read a lot of it, but trying to avoid the stuff about the quests, so I can figure them out on my own. At the moment, my character is only level 5, so I do not have much opinions about balance yet. When I am doing quests, I enjoy solving puzzles as much as trying to defeat a nasty boss. I do not mind the death penalties, but would be nice to not lose a level when die.

I am enjoying the arrows from the archery shop, though I had to take a rogue level to use the bow. I decided to change my build to include 10 rogue levels with 30 bard.

While doing some Low Forest goblins, I noticed some rocks which were meant to block the path, but I could walk through them. A common problem when placeables are placed below the surface. I figured you might want to know about that.

I have a question about the server rules for classes. It say that all classes must be at least 6 levels, but it allow harper scout and purple dragon knight, which are 5 level classes. I am assuming these would be exceptions, but I am not sure. Was just curious, lol.